Calvinist predestination vs Biblical Genesis creation

6 Replies to “Calvinist predestination vs Biblical Genesis creation”

1. The author here uses one of my reasons to refute the false theology of calvinism, that man was created in the image and likeness of God with free will. The calvinist view on everything in TULIP renders the word of God a lie. It’s refreshing to see someone besides Dave Hunt expose the lies of calvinism.

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   • Man was created in the image of God. Calvinism affirms this. Contrary to the author’s claims, Calvin did not teach that man was created evil. He taught (as does the Bible) that man FELL, and thereafter all creation is depraved and fallen. Many passages teach this explicitly (Isa 64:6, Rom 3:23, 1 Cor 15:22 to name a few). This does not at all contradict the fact that God created the universe perfect and declared it good. If your problem is with Total Depravity, take it up with the Bible rather than Calvin’s teaching (which, by the way, was only distinguished when Jacob Arminius the heretic began to teach contrary to the Bible; Calvin was the leading theologian of the day, so naturally those who wanted to distinguish themselves from Arminius condemned him as a heretic and called themselves Calvinists. I have never met anyone who upholds his teaching on the level of Scripture) There is a shocking and concerning lack of Scripture in this rebuttal of Calvin’s teaching on predestination. It seems to deal solely with Total Depravity, which is one of the most widely accepted of the 5 points of Calvinism. It in no way contradicts Scripture; in fact, it is confirmed strongly by it. As are the other points of Calvinism, but they were not even attempted to be argued in this post so I will not defend them here. As far as free will is concerned, no verse in the Bible indicates that we are given a choice. The only time the words “free will” appear in the Bible is in the context of certain offerings given when there is no obligation to do so. In fact, Jesus states clearly in John 15:16 “you did not choose me, but I chose you”. Many passages in Scripture teach predestination (Romans 9 and 11, Exodus 33, John 6 and 10 and 15 and 17, Ephesians 1 and 2 among many others. If you are unconvinced I have more) Our will is free in the sense that we can make certain decisions, but as Augustine states in “The Bondage of the Will”, our wills are bound by our fallen human nature and we cannot choose to not sin or to love God unless He enables us to. Once saved, our relationship with God becomes synergistic- our growth is dependent on the strength of the Holy Spirit and the cooperation of our spirit. But once you are saved, you cannot be lost. If you really take issue with Calvinism, I encourage you to look into its teachings for yourself instead of relying on others who disagree with it to tell you what it is. I recommend Ligonier Ministries as a starting point; they explain the 5 points and other reformed doctrines very clearly. I do not believe that affirming predestination is necessary for salvation; I am in no way delegitimizing your faith. God loves you and has since the foundation of the world; I long for everyone to know the beauty of the doctrine of predestination and I do not like to see believers being condemned as evil, liars, heretics, satanists, and other insults that Calvinists have received from other Christians.

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     • Greetings Brad,

       Thank you for taking the time to write about your perspective on predestination. Before I respond, let me make it perfectly clear that the Bible absolutely teaches predestination. The word itself and its synonyms are used many times:

       • Predestine (προορίζω, proorizó) – e.g., Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11
       • Foreknowledge (πρόγνωσις, prognōsis) – e.g., Romans 8:29, 1 Peter 1:2
       • Chosen / Elect (eklektos) – e.g., Matthew 24:22, Romans 8:33, 1 Peter 2:9
       • Called (kaleo) – e.g., Romans 8:30, 1 Corinthians 1:9
       • Ordained / Appointed – e.g., Acts 13:48, 1 Thessalonians 5:9

       We all know the word “proorízō” means “(from 4253 /pró, “before” and 3724 /horízō, “establish boundaries, limits”) – properly, pre-horizon, pre-determine limits (boundaries) predestine.” But the disagreement between Reformed Calvinists and Biblical Christians has to do with what is predestined. In every case that this word is used, the subject of what is pre-determined is clearly revealed by God. And in no case is it ever the salvation or damnation of the individual person. Please read What is predestined? (God’s plan or people’s actions) – This Bible study describes the differences between what is predestined and who has free will in Romans and Ephesians.

       However, I completely agree that there is no place for name calling and personal attacks between Christians. Please read Don’t hate anyone who God loves and don’t love anything that God hates – Who to love, who to hate, what to love, and what to hate? Here is what the Bible says who God loves and what God hates.

       With prayers for blessings,
       David

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       • David,

         Thank you for your quick reply. I read through the article that you posted and I understand why this is a difficult doctrine to reconcile. However, I disagree that predestination is not described in the context of salvation. Even if the word predestination itself refers only to the plan of salvation, there is no explanation for Christ saying that He lays down His life for “His sheep” and not the whole world. The whole world is not His sheep- this is universalism. So there must be some way by which the goats are separated out and the chaff is blown away. Just how God does this is stated clearly yet can be difficult to accept.

         Firstly, Christ’s work on the cross is described as “finished”. The Greek word used refers to a debt that has been paid in full. There is nothing left to be done to pay for sins. It is not up to us to finish His work of atonement. Jesus did not die for everyone’s sins and make them eligible for redemption, either; God cannot demand justice twice. His wrath was poured out on Christ, and therefore the sins are punished and God will not punish it again. Therefore either the atonement was limited to the elect, or unlimited and all people will be saved. Furthermore, the Trinity’s continuity of purpose and fellowship are jeopardized if we claim that the Father sent the Son for everyone and the Son atoned for everyone but the Spirit does not save everyone.

         If salvation was somehow offered to the whole world without obligating them to be saved, we must admit the logical possibility that everyone will accept. We must also admit the logical possibility that no one will accept. We know that neither of these possibilities are acknowledged by God, who is a logical and orderly God. He knows that some will be saved and some will not. Of course He knows- He knows everything.

         We are, as I argued in my last comment, totally depraved. We are described as dead in our sins and trespasses and, prior to salvation, enemies of God. We would absolutely never choose God when given the option. Often the analogy of a life raft is used to describe God’s offer of salvation. But a life raft would be no good to someone who has drowned and is face down in the water. Jesus had to jump in, pull us out, and perform CPR on us to bring us to new life in Him. And he does not allow us the opportunity to jump back in – once you are given life you cannot be lost. We are now not just improved creations, we are new creations. Just think of how often we know what is right and do what is wrong anyway. Our flesh seems strong now after being revived in Christ- imagine how strong it was without His Spirit! We did not choose Him, as Jesus asserts in John 15:16. In fact, we fought against Him- as C. S. Lewis describes, we are “drug into the kingdom kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting [our] eyes in every direction for a chance of escape”. Now, not all of us knowingly resist that hard; sometimes the war for our souls is fought more subtly. When we realize that God pursued us long and hard and called us by name, the beauty of our salvation shines that much brighter.

         The word “whoever” is often used in argument against election (whoever believes, etc). However, the word does not necessitate the gift’s availability to all. It just means that whoever does believe will receive salvation. It does not indicate which comes first, the belief or the salvation. (Please do not misunderstand- if a person has not believed, they will not go to heaven. I do not mean that if God has called someone and they die beforehand that they will go to heaven regardless. God is in charge of when we die, and would not allow one of His elect to die before their appointed time of salvation.) Similarly, many people argue that because the Bible says “God so loved the world” and “for the sins of the whole world”, atonement is offered to literally everyone. But the word “world” in this sense refers to salvation’s globality and non-discriminancy. God will save people from every tribe and tongue and nation, not just the Israelites.

         It must be addressed that God does not wish that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9). First of all, the context in which this verse is placed is referring to the fact that He delays His coming that many might come to repentance; it is not in the context of His plan of salvation. Regardless, the verse says that He does not want anyone to perish. This brings up a serious problem – it is clear from Scripture that God is omnipotent and will accomplish His will regardless of human resistance. Think of all of the times that He intervened and saved His people from certain annihilation at the hands of their enemies. Think of all of the times that Jesus escaped from the Pharisees when they would have had Him killed because His time had not yet come. There is no question that we cannot stop God’s plan. To understand the coexistence of these two true statements, we must look at what is meant by the will of God. Does He only have one will? Surely not. He does not will that anyone should sin – but He still allows it. Sometimes, however, He intervenes and does not allow it. There are two different Greek words used for “will” in the New Testament. One refers to a conscious desire, while the other refers to a subconscious desire. Unfortunately, they have even more nuances depending on their contexts, so we cannot understand them without some deeper study. Theologians have defined (as far as humans can define anything about God) several distinct yet related wills of God. There is His effacious, or decretive, will; this will includes those things that He sovereignly declares will or will not happen. There is also His preceptive will; this will includes those things that He commands us to do but does not force us to do. Finally, there is His effective will; this includes things that He desires “emotionally” (if we can describe God that way), like when He takes delight in something. When we look at the phrase from 2 Peter, we see that the word used for “wish” describes His decretive will. If He truly decreed that none would perish, none would. But when we look at the verse in context, we see that “any” describes the “you” of the beginning of the verse. “You” refers to God’s children, the object of Peter’s letter. Similarly, in 1 Timothy 2:4, God “desires”, or effectively wills, that all be saved, but He does not decree it. Though we try, we cannot understand the wills of God fully – and thank Him for that! If we could understand everything about God, we would feel that we did not need Him and we would be stranded to be gods ourselves.

         Finally, God could not practically order our steps if He didn’t know that we would be saved. If someone isn’t a believer, they probably won’t faithfully attend the same church, meet the same people, have the same conversations, or make the same decisions that they would as a Christian. But we know that God has plans for our lives. In fact, His entire plan of salvation would not have worked had He not known who would follow Him and consequently write about Him? Would He have pursued Paul as hard as He had to the road to Damascus, only to put the choice on him and leave it up to a sinner who hates Christians to believe and later author most of the New Testament? Would He have hoped that enough prophets believed in Him to relay His word to His people? God doesn’t alter His plan on the fly- that much is clear from the intricacy of the Bible, from the fact of His omniscience, and from the fact of His eternality (He does not wait for us to make decisions because He does not exist in our time). He knew and ordained His plan from before the foundation of the world, as you acknowledged, and so necessarily ordained not only how but who would be involved in carrying it out.

         Some verses/passages: Exodus 33:19; Psalm 65:4; Proverbs 16:4, 21:1; Isaiah 6:10; Jeremiah 1:5; Matthew 11:25-27, 22:1-14; Luke 24:13-49; John 6:35-71, 12:37-43, 15:16; Acts 2:39-47, 13:46-52; Romans 3:10-12, ch9, ch11; I Corinthians 1:18-19; 2:14; Galatians 1:11-17; Ephesians 1:3-14, 2:1-10; I Peter 1:1-2

         I very much appreciate that you took the time to read this. I am not expecting that my (unintendedly long) response will change your mind, but I hope that it makes you think, that your opinion of the validity of the reformed belief on predestination will improve, and that God will reveal this truth to you in His time. May our Lord bless you and keep you.

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         • Brad,

           Thank you for sharing these thoughts. Let me walk through the points you asked about and offer a response in simple, everyday language, as a fellow believer who loves God’s Word and wants to see Him glorified.

           First, it’s true that there are roughly two billion people who identify as Christians worldwide. Among them, you might find around a billion who hold to some form of Reformed teaching (which stresses God’s sovereignty and predestination) and another billion who emphasize humanity’s free will. Obviously, we’re not going to resolve that entire disagreement in a single blog post! Christians have wrestled with these doctrines for centuries, and we’ll likely keep wrestling until Christ returns.

           In the context you provided (your long response), I see many distinct places where you specifically say “God does X,” “God cannot do Y,” “He must do Z,” or otherwise state or imply a requirement or action placed on God. Here’s a quick summary:

           1. “God cannot demand justice twice.”
           2. “He will not punish sin again.”
           3. “He had to jump in, pull us out, and perform CPR…”
           4. “He does not allow us the opportunity to jump back in…”
           5. “God is in charge of when we die and would not allow one of His elect to die before their appointed time…”
           6. “He does not will that anyone should sin but still allows it…”
           7. “He does not wait for us to make decisions because He does not exist in our time…”
           8. “He knew and ordained His plan from before the foundation of the world…”

           Those statements each define something that you claim about what God does or does not do, or what He must or must not do. Since we are all flawed humans, it bothers me that a theology puts these kinds of restrictions on God.

           A common concern is this: If Calvinism is correct, some say, then those not chosen are condemned by God’s express will—He simply didn’t include them in Christ’s atonement. From a purely logical angle, critics find this difficult because it sounds like certain individuals never had any hope. On the other side, a more “free will” view says people are responsible for rejecting God’s offer of grace themselves. Whichever view you hold, Scripture does show that unrepentant sinners bear responsibility (Romans 1:18–20), and at the same time, it also speaks of God’s sovereign choice (Ephesians 1:4–5). These are big truths that can be tough to hold in tension.

           One might ask: “Why say God couldn’t fully atone for everyone and still require personal faith?” In other words, if God is all-powerful, can’t He do both—make salvation truly available to everyone and still call them to repent and believe? That question points to the core mystery of sovereignty and human responsibility. Some people feel that the strict “limited atonement” stance can give the impression God is constrained by some internal logic that forces Him to choose only certain individuals, rather than leaving open the possibility for all to respond. It’s worth pondering carefully: Does the Bible itself force that limitation, or are we imposing it on the text?

           We should all be grateful for every brother or sister in Christ—Reformed, Arminian, or anything in between—who holds to the saving gospel of Jesus Christ: namely, that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1–11). This is the core message that binds us together. If someone truly believes that Jesus is Lord, that He rose from the dead, and that salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9), then they are our family in Christ, even if we disagree on the finer points of theology.

           It is so important to remember that our salvation doesn’t hinge on precisely figuring out God’s decrees or having a perfect theological system. A classic example is the thief on the cross (Luke 23:39–43). He knew very little about Christ’s finished work—Jesus hadn’t even risen from the dead yet! Yet that thief trusted Jesus in his final hours, and the Lord promised he would be with Him in paradise. Similarly, many believers throughout history and around the world have been saved under difficult or confusing circumstances. They might not have had systematic theology or access to deep Bible studies, but they trusted in Christ and belonged to Him.

           At the end of the day, even as we wrestle with passages that speak of God’s sovereignty (e.g. Romans 9, Ephesians 1) or human responsibility (e.g. John 3:16, Romans 10:9–10), we do well to stay humble. God’s ways are higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8–9). While we might not fully grasp every angle of the doctrine of predestination in this life, we can cling to the promises we do understand: that Jesus truly saves sinners who call upon His name and that our hope is secure in Him.

           I appreciate your desire to dig into Scripture—may the Lord guide and bless you as you continue to study His Word.

           > Romans 8:28 – “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”
           > John 6:37 – “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.”
           > John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

           Grace and peace to you in Christ. Let’s rejoice together that He is good and His salvation is sufficient for all who believe.

           In Christ’s love,
           David

2. Thank you for these insights.

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